Ok. if you can hide the meter it makes more sense to me.
Do you mean on the Menu button?
Just create a new and empty pedalboard and check what is assigned to the 3rd encoder on page 1 and subpage 1
If it’s doable, sure…why not 
1 Like
I usually set up gain meters after most plug-ins while building and then add volume plug-ins where needed.
If the GUI was to be altered, you could put a meter on each cable. The cables are part of the GUI, and if you hover or zoom, you could make it easier to see the levels on particular cables. That only covers the metering part, but it’s a start which doesn’t require existing plug-ins to be re-coded.
3 Likes
As I stated before, all focus to mouse action is of no use (if not detrimental) to touch based operation.
2 Likes
Agreed, I am on touch interface only so mouse focused features are a miss on my end 
Edit: however. The feature would be great for a lot of other people, and I do have a laptop I could use. I just prefer my iPad because it’s one screen for most things I do
3 Likes
You did indeed state it before. More than once…
The respective area could additionally show the popup on click/touch events. No loss for non-mouse people.
Thank you very much for considering this enhancement!
2 Likes
I guess you mean something like this. True, it isn’t RMS level shown by the meter, it’s still peak based, just with a overlay peak with falloff time
3 Likes
Why not both an overload led and the meter/level control? Make the meter and level control collapsible so that most of the time you only see the overload led on the cable, but if you click or tap on the (i) the full size meter and level control appear.
2 Likes
@Gino I’m a third party developer.
that is out of scope for a plugin developer, as it needs to be implemented in mod-ui and mod-host. On top of that, I fail to see the real advance on doing that. I understand, that while you create a peadalboard, you are interested in checking the levels between plugs, but when you are done, there is no need any-more for this, and you properly remove them from the stack. Having a overload LED on each cable will waste your CPU power. I prefer to use this power for some oversampling in a distortion unit. My measurements shows 0.7% DSP load for each GAIN/LEVELMETER plug, lets say you use 5 mono plugs, we talk about 3,5% DSP load ( + 2x0.7% for the in and output cables). Stereo will double that.
PS: The recorders contain a overload LED, and that worked even when you don’t record.
5 Likes
I don’t think this would be something for the plugin developers to do. It would be something that Mod Devices could do.
Thanks for the numbers @brummer! I certainly use the level controls mostly during the construction of a pedal board. Considering the considerable DSP loads the debug-button solution might be our best bet. If there was metering control within the “debug session” people might be able to drop quite a few volume control pedals and thus improve their CPU utilisation.
3 Likes
You don’t need to say “thank you” even less to me. We (MOD) consider all the enhancements and suggestions because, just like you, we want to make the devices and the platform even better
Sure. @brummer explained that. But unfortunately, we are not an infinite team. If you only take a quick look at the number of requests that we receive on a weekly (or even daily) basis you will understand that everything needs to be well evaluated and considered. We can’t implement every single thing each user requests, even less immediately.
@brummer also made a fairly important point on the implementation of such a thing constantly available and its DSP load requirements that could be better used somewhere else.
Again, personally, I feel the meter is useful, the immediate and constant possibility to adjust the level it’s more irrelevant since the platform already includes a few ways to do that - on the plugins volume controls, gain plugins, etc.
5 Likes
So basically, your preference is for the work around instead of a more elegant solution. Ok.
I realize that I’m in a severe minority here so I have no choice but to be satisfied with what most of this community seems to be more than happy to work with if I’m to continue using the Dwarf.
Sheesh. You’ve been in a number of threads now with this entitled attitude and even after several community members and MOD team have taken time to respond with historical context and offer suggestions you continue to be toxic and ungrateful. Everyone here can see that you are cherry-picking sentences from replies and then attempting to use them to paint an uncharitable picture. This is the provenance of politicians and used-car salesman. It’s absurd that you would be a in a thread where several people have expressed a desire for better tooling, offering numerous suggestions and feedback, and then call us all complacent sheep once MOD confirms that they don’t have the bandwidth to change anything at this time.
6 Likes
Of course, you’re right. I was under the impression that the Dwarf was extremely powerful and could handle having more control over the signal flow. I’m not asking for anything truly demanding like polyphonic synth plugins but I guess I’m being “entitled” for even asking for just a basic control that I believe would benefit the Dwarf.
“Ungrateful”? Seriously? Did Mod Devices just give us these things for free and thus I should just be thankful and consider myself lucky that I have one? Sorry if I don’t worship at their altar. I paid for mine.
Just once I’d like to see a response like “we’ll look into it”. There have been some supportive posts, yes, but a good number have been reasons for why it can’t be done or is unnecessary because there’s already a workaround.
As good as the Dwarf could be, I’m sorry but its usability as a whole just ain’t there yet. Yes, sonically you can create some highly unusual and interesting sounds with it. But for regular guitar sounds, it’s only a tiny bit better and easier to get a good sound from than the Helix. However, just for kicks, I recently got a NuX MG30 which is LEAGUES easier to manage and get a good sound from than the Dwarf. Like the Dwarf, it is, out of the box, smoother sounding than the Helix. But also, unlike the Dwarf, (and I know this strays from the subject at hand) I can edit it right from the front panel without any prior setup using its editor. Is it perfect? No, of course not. It has its own albeit very minor flaws and yes much more limited in what it can do. But creating, managing and searching its ‘pedalboards’ has an elegance that the Dwarf can only dream of. And no, I have not experienced any internal digital clipping issues with it and so a level control or metering has not been necessary.
If feeling like and saying that the Dwarf could be and should be better than it is makes me “entitled”, so be it. I’ll freely own up to that label but having the Dwarf does not oblige me to be grateful.
I had a good hard look at what I get from my other modeling devices. The bottom line for me is that other than being able to create some unusual sounds and admittedly beautiful sounds, the Dwarf offers me no significant advantage over the other two modeling pedals that I own. In fact for my purposes, its disadvantages far outweigh its advantages. Yes I’ve hooked up a midi keyboard and checked out the synths. Meh.
You know what, I’m going to shelve the Dwarf for now and see what improvements (if any) come along in a year.
I truly do hope that the Mod team can and do prove me wrong and that they can turn the Dwarf into something truly world class. I am very curious to see what Mod Devices comes up with in a year so for now, I’m putting the Dwarf back in its case, boxing it up and logging out of this forum.
See you in 2023.
I’m sorry @Gino, I will not personally or in name of MOD take part in this discussion. Yet, this is not accurate. Multiple times I wrote that we will look at it and see what/how we can do. On your request and on any other. They are all mapped and will all be looked into. And we do this even if only one user requests a feature.
And again, all your inputs reported on your last post are very welcome and were ALL noted. So, thank you for that.
7 Likes
I’ll add to that, many of the advantages you mentioned from the NuX MG30 are things that we publically acknowledge and intend to improve. We want to make the devices easier to use and are constantly working on new improvements. A lot of the things you want are things that we also want. Just don’t be offended if we don’t do something exactly how you first imagine it. We have to evaluate every idea including the ones that come from us. Even the things that I come up with will go through several levels of scrutiny from both the internal team as well as the community to evaluate if it is a good idea, the best approach, if it’s needed at all or if it could be made redundant by other ideas. The insight that we take here is that it is difficult to manage signal level at different points along the chain. That could mean that there needs to be more visual feedback, it could mean there needs to be more control and it could mean that there needs to be more consistency between plugins. It will all be evaluated and addressed properly when we have the time and resources to do it. And we do intend to do it
13 Likes
Gino, appreciate your input and sorry you are feeling frustrated. It’s not that the idea is bad or wrong; just technically challenging and so will involve compromises or stages. My understanding is that tools have limitations. We are fortunate that constraints foster creativity. I have used a lot of hardware and software and sometimes it doesn’t behave the way I think it should. Usually when people have spent the time to make something they also spent a lot of mental effort thinking about the details which I am so quick to judge in anger or frustration. Spending time learning how things works is great - maybe it doesn’t jive with you and you prefer something else it or think it should be different.
I only want to point out that I believe we should all leave room for our tools (hardware, software) to be what they are instead of trying to bend them to what we think they should be. We can point out inspirations and improvements, but trying to say something like “why doesn’t my sampler or tracker behave just like my DAW” - they are simply very different tools and use cases.
One challenge of mod devices is they cover a wide range of use cases, and so some might be better flushed out than others at any one time. For example the user who might want to write and upload their own plugins might feel like the platform is stellar, but the user who just wants to plug in their instrument or vocal chain might have a different experience, and the whole range of use cases in between. In Rust they flushed out all the different user stories and made them cute little avatars and use cases.
Hope you don’t regret your purchase over some strange sounds in a board you used once, the mod box really is an amazing tool. I really like the idea of having feedback on the gain staging across plugins. I just personally don’t think there is any reason to have the level controls since, like I mentioned before - there are no other tools out there automatically puts level control on all your plugins because it is not a pragmatic solution.
I do think that MAX/MSP has something like the cables light up when data is traveling through them or something. I think having little global-toggle LED indicators on each end of the plugins sound like it would be great. Wonder how big your board would have to be until you click that button and it overloads the CPU
Cheers!
6 Likes
Dude.
While some of your ideas and critical thoughts are good, you seem to think that all of them are. And it shows in your attitude which I find extremely annoying.
In another thread you wrote:
What made you change your mind?
3 Likes
Gino,
As said before, you have -some- interesting ideas but somehow you seem to need affirmation for every aspect and detail. I do admit I had a bit of a learning curve but up till now a positive attitude and a can-do attitde got me quite far in a short timespan already (Those who read my “Journal” are witness of that)
I’m starting to think you are half falling in and half falling out of the target group of this device and the philosophy. It’s a shame the opportunities don’t tickle your passion enough and you get dragged down by the fact that this community serves the many instead of you first. Excuse my French on that one but if you check how interested, thorough and polite these people are, how much the voice of the community resonates and how fluent dev sprints move on at MODdevices…I wonder how you manage to DO have fun in your life. (as much as I grant you fun, as I tried to support your ideas here)
I can understand that not everybody is delighted by the growth potential that is here but also needs to be developped for some part. It’s a small team and if you come up with KILLER ideas; they will top the prio lists, I am SURE. Providing these suggestions would be absolutely win-win. If you notice that an idea is “ok” but “needs the right angle” or some maturing in the back of our heads, you know it is a good time to let it go for a minute.
Not every of my ideas is awesome but some others pick up traction and I try to find a common ground. Ideas should start wide a “wide” sense of opportunity and they can gain focus if you find the different angles. Other users and other kind of stakeholders help focus an idea and shape it in a specific concept that is broadly usable.
You fall out of the target audience as you need to be willing to fiddle a bit and grow along with the whole concept.
This takes me back to times pc guitar effects were rather new and I had to improvise to get good sound and yet acceptable latency. Although it were cheap products, the bang for buck was a lot less than what we’re getting here.
I guess I’m easily star struck or something but having my ideas checked right away honored me. Then it became apparent that even plugin builders are active here for years and they even get inspired if you show them the same can-do attitude.
It’s the first product I “take part in” that not only promises this kind of evolution but also makes that happen. I have other modeller stuff but I have zero shares in how they progress. Through they years I saw almost zero progress in these products while they spammed sales for other, newer products. That’s claerly not how they work here. If the sense of agency you have by -being- here doesn’t excite you enough to prevent you from being sour, I guess you have to put the time you “waste” here in practicing so you can shine for thousands on stage and ind your gratification there.
9 Likes