I was about to buy a dwarf yesterday in the store, but now says out of stock…
When will I be able to buy a Dwarf?
So you assume that MOD just “held on” to the money and didn’t actually use it to invest in production and running the business.
If you didn’t want the extra wait-time, you should’ve never added yourself to the Tier3 group. This is 100% on you, sorry.
I’m just hoping MOD survives through all of this and us Tier3 backers won’t be left in the dust after the very real possible collapse of the company.
Yes, I’m also somewhat regretting putting myself on that Tier3 list, but had none of us done that the Tier2 group would’ve been in the same boat. Just hoping for the best and even the remotest of chances that MOD pulls through.
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Does someone want to explain the concept of accounting and balance sheets to him?
As for Tier 3, well, we’ve blown through two projected delivery times for it, and yet they’re still available on Thomann. You’re right that it’s entirely on me, and it’s beginning to look like I’m an idiot for backing a company that took my money and has no intent to deliver.
Hello Alan.
Please just take a minute more of your time to analyze your affirmation. It just make no sense. MOD Devices for sure has no intent to steal from you.
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I would prefer a company alive and so hope to recieve my unit someday than recieve my unit now considering that it would kill mod devices
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If my understanding is right, people are entitled to refunds (not sure if 100% though.)
Why don’t you write MOD directly?
That doesn’t mean they were produced last week. They can be stock with months or years on them. The person I was buying the MOD from got it mid 2021 (I saw the invoice) and the serial number was july of 2020.
And trust me, with the crazy prices of now I am absolutely sure MOD has delivered Tier 2 units at a loss for them. There’s NO WAY then can produce them at 300 Euro right now.
But this is a free forum from what I can see, so you’re free to whine as you please. You’re not wrong in your complaints, but like @dreamer said, don’t go on stating that they “held on” to your money. I’m sure they have little or nothing left.
I guess there are more people here who need to understand the “concept of accounting and balance sheets”.
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I believe that’s always been the case. If not on this post, I read it elsewhere in the forum. What’s not refunded is KS’s cut – because yes, Kickstarter and Indiegogo get a slice of the cake… I think their basic fee is 5%, then payment processing bites another 3-5%.
Just apply for a refund if you want out.
And depending on what chips you use (NXP processors, for one), you are in DEEP red ink right now. I just paid 110% more for an electronic part than I did less than a year ago – from 90 to nearly 190 Euros.
Maybe I can offer you a hand here?
Balance sheets tell you a direct and measurable story. Cash in and cash out. Black in white. They can tell if you’re having a profit or loss. Easily. You can throw all of that in the statistical blender, run some regressions and project earnings/losses, identify supply chain outliers and bottlenecks, optimise resources. That’s the beauty of numbers. They can say one is burning cash or stockpiling supplies, making wise acquisitions or wasting precious resources. And much more.
Now, they don’t tell you how to run a business. Much less how to sell a vision, be it tied to a product or not. Think if many products that were visionary and absolutely fantastic that either never saw the light of day or, worse yet, became real products that floundered fantastically. (With all due respect to the artist, Will.I.am has a number of these in his portfolio.)
Mod raised cash for a tangible product and, in spite of what you said, they actually had something “to show for it.” Now they raised X with the expectation of spending X minus Y with production and delivery, so they could have some capital to go forward. It just so happened that it ended up costing X plus some serious Y. And Y is still on the rise, while X is fixed. They resorted to selling some units at market price so as to offset some of the increased Y expenditures.
(Quite frankly, I don’t think Mod could bring the Duo X production back at less than $900-950 market price. And that’s with a much lower profit margin.)
Mod Devices now needs a cash infusion to make Tier 3 happen. If they are not making a profit per unit, then how in the bloody hell can they get financing? No bank lends against a product that has zero profit. No investor puts money into “appeasing” customers (ever!!) or, to use your words, allow the company’s
“self-respect” to play out.
Mod therefore needs to sell something – be it their technology, assets, or at least a VERY carefully crafted plan to absorb cash and fulfill their commitments to backers while also and most importantly being able to maintain their product environment, which is the only thing that can make the company survive. The more units are in the market, more people are using it, and the more they are likely to sell. And they need to convince business partners and investors – preferably without selling out – that by sending another N units out to the market at zero profit will actually boost their business. That putting money at a very narrow (if any) profit expectation for at least the next 2 years is a good idea and will further the vision and platform. That investing in Mod Devices will pay out in some form, at some point.
How on Earth do you do that?
I can tell you: balance sheets won’t help here. Because trust me, not one soul will dish a dime into something (commercial) without an expectation of getting something in return – like a piece of hardware worth $500 for just $300, which is what you did, right?
I’m not aware of how their current negotiations are going and what to expect, but I can tell you this: I hope and wish that Mod’s platform, vision, and products thrive. I’m not a backer, I am the one who went to the store and dished 700 Euro for a Duo X. So if I lose, I’ll lose a hell lot more than any backer.
(I don’t work for Mod Devices and am not defending their past actions and past or current management, just to make it clear. I don’t have any internal information either.)
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From the price on Thomann, it looks like I paid $250 + 3 years for a $300 device.
This is such a strange idea to both misunderstand and then proceed to nitpick, and here we have it a second time. It’s another way of saying they took my money and haven’t produced anything in return.
Yes but as a backer you didn’t pay to buy a product, right? It’s not that kind of commercial trade, is it?
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I see it hovering between 419 and 433 Euro at Thomann in different European countries. May I ask where did you find the $300 offer?
(It is 329 GBP at UK’s Thomann, roughly 395 Euro at today’s rate – but to Europe VAT is added on top of that.)
From the Kickstarter page, looks like the initial estimate in 2020 was for a 339 Euro retail price. (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong)
(I am personally unable to take this discussion any further until at least late September, so I wish you @Alan and other backers good luck. We all hope Mod Devices will pull this one off.)
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It was 300 euro yesterday when I looked. That’s ~US$305. Today it’s more. Thomann pricing is weird, I guess.
Got to disagree on that one. I know Kickstarter stuff is meant to be backing the company not the product.
However when I bought my Dwarf on Indegogo, I bought a Dwarf. I didn’t back the company. If I invested and didn’t buy a product. Why did I have to pay Tax when it came to the UK? Surely my investment in the company does not require that . Obviously a free Dwarf helped too.
You can see why people get annoyed when they get told they didn’t buy a product.
To me kickstarter is a sensible way to look at how many orders you would get so helps you set up your company with cash taken up front which helps production. Yet anytime somebody complains then it’s described almost like a crypto investment - 'you invested / backed the company and hopefully you will get a product (unless it’s an expression pedal), most campaigns fail etc etc.
But I’m sure £250 + Delivery for Mod devices Dwarf means I bought a Dwarf for 250 + Delivery not I’ve just invested 250 in the company to help production.
I’ve been a Dwarf owner since Feb so doesn’t really apply to me anymore but I feel people’s pain with it all.
As always my thoughts and feelings with no offence
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Sure, I didn’t mean to annoy anyone 
Just not sure I fully understand the concept behind those investment Platforms 
Surely the clients are both Mod Devices and the backers, they both buy some kind of service from the Platforms. So who buys what in all this? Isn’t the final
product just a counterpart for the backers, while the compagny making the product gets cash infusion ?
As I see it, the only ones selling something here are kickstarter and indiegogo, the “middle men”…
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No offence taken. Just my feelings from previous when I was grumpy with no Dwarf. Can see the pain others are having on both sides.
And yes its a bit of a minefield to be honest.
But that’s a can of worms I don’t need to open today .
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You pay tax on anything that’s imported to your country if that’s what you country dictates. I have had to pay tax on birthday gifts my family sent me from Australia to Germany
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No sorry James you misunderstood. Was stating if I had just invested or backed the campaign instead of buying a product.
But as I’m about to go on holiday - don’t worry.
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Well, I guess any financial transaction implies some kind of tax anyways, so…
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I’m not pleased either.
It was mistake to participate in the crowd funding, I can see that now. The consequence is I’ll never do it again for MOD.
Yet, it’s probably worse than that, b/c I’ve had to find other solutions in the meantime. There’s really nothing to keep me with MOD. I’ve wanted to participate in the forum, pedalboard sharing, etc. but I don’t have a working device anymore–used to have a working DUO.
Furthermore, I’ve suggested here before that MOD produce something of DAW plugin and perhaps shift their focus more toward their software. Which of course is something they directly control. This would make a lot sense right about now–and surely did a few years ago! Why not push further in this direction to realize revenue here and expand adoption? Plus it would have kept someone like myself engaged. Why insist upon just hardware, which is only economical to produce in China?
Btw, from the sound of things, we’re likely about to see a new supply chain crisis (war) over Taiwan; what then? Will MOD have to close shop?
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How does a “DAW plugin” make any sense? Do you even know how mod-host/ui work?
Do consider that out of all the niche tech device crowdfundings out there this could still be considered a very successful one!
(yeah there are countless ones where nobody received even a single device. from total scams to just total failures)
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