I am in testing a Duo X and might purchase it soon, but I wanted to ask something first: I also want a Dwarf so I can take it on the road sitting in the pedaltrain. I have a fellow bass player selling one with many plugins, so I wonder if the licenses are transferable or per unit. I read a post somewhere in the forum about the license being per user, but can’t find it just now.
If I buy the X without plugins and a Dwarf with plugins, can I have them installed on both units? How is the ownership transfer process?
Plugin licenses are normally tied to a specific unit. Doing some kind of license transfer seems like it would have to be done on a case-by-case basis (and of course puts some stress on the team).
I found the post I mentioned before (it’s here). Even though @friedsilence says Mod Devices manages licenses per device, the agreement they have is user-based:
So it’s kind of confusing. I can buy a Dwarf (used) that comes with licenses but they don’t get transferred over to me and I can’t use them on other units unless they manually authorize it. Looks like they are planning a device registration of some kind, also per the post above.
I would say that your case is a bit more specific.
The licences are device based, but we want to turn it into user basis so if you have bought multiple devices you don’t need to buy the plugins multiple times.
What we normally do in this type of cases is to manually provide the licences that are missing from one device to the other.
Now, in a case like you are describing, you actually didn’t buy the plugins, you got them in one device from another user and are making use of the fact that they are still in practice device basis.
That said, I would say that in your case you don’t really have the right to get the licences in the other device, because the user that got those licences was another (that happened to sell you the device).
We don’t have yet proper politics set here, but this is what I would say that is fair. Maybe @falkTX can give us also his opinion.
Hi @jon, thanks for the explanation. So that means there is no way a current owner can legally transfer licenses to another person, is that correct? Not even paying a fee?
I confess this is like pouring a cold bucket over my head. If I acquire a used Dwarf that has plugins, two bad things happen: the owner has no way of transferring them to me, and when you change licensing to per-user, they will stop working the moment I register my devices. I would guess the ability to transfer a plugin could be a major selling point for used units, but that’s only my guess. What attracted me to this particular Dwarf is that it’s loaded with all paid options you offer.
I hope you can sort this out in the near future. Some companies charge a fee for transferring (like IK Multimedia here in Italy), so if that’s a burden or creates more work for you, it would offset some of it.
In the current form the plugins are retained to the Dwarf unit so there is no reason to think you couldn’t use them there.
What you requested is if you could transfer the plugins to other units.
I expect that you will be able to use the plugins on the Dwarf indefinitely. Transferring would however not be possible.
Hi @dreamer, thanks for your input. I think I didn’t make myself clear.
Yes, but my main question since the first post is if there’s a way to transfer the ownership of plugins. Because a plugin I own as an individual can then be transferred to other Mod units as per their policy even in its current form. Hope this clarifies the point.
I’m not trying to be cheap and get plugins at no cost for multiple units. What I wanted to know is if, by acquiring a used unit that has those plugins, they can me transferred over to me (the person), which is what enables me to install them in other units. After all, another Dwarf will cost me $400, whereas I could simply acquire them all for $100+.
But, as you and @jon have said, a transfer of ownership is not possible, so I will not acquire that unit. To be honest, I don’t even own the DuoX I’m using right now.
That being said, I stand by my comment that Mod should implement this possibility asap.
Like dreamer mentioned, one of the hangups is that plugin licenses are device level. I believe MOD will be moving towards having user accounts with plugin license ownership.
Once that is implemented, it won’t matter if the device is new or used, as your profile will always have your plugin library.
What it sounds like, is that you want to purchase the licenses for the plugins you would get for free with the unit, so you can transfer them to another device that you also don’t own?
The plugins are the most affordable part of the platform imo, and I think it would be cool to implement license accounts independent of the hardware. Seeing as MODep can be installed on other hardware or computers, it would make sense to handle software and hardware separately.
With the way that the licenses are granted currently, I can understand your frustration, as your request could be achieved with a MOD account. I’m hoping it will be a major focus for the platform soon.
In terms of getting a discount on the plugins to transfer ownership, that may be locked out due to licensing agreements; but I don’t work for MOD, so don’t quote me.
For reference, I own 2 MOD units, and have to email to apply the licenses I own across 2 devices. If I sell a device, it’s asked to wipe them before sending them out as licenses are granted per unit rather than per user currently.
There are two separate questions in play here - one is whether you can transfer plugins you’ve personally paid for to multiple devices - and the answer in my understanding is yes, you absolutely can, but right now it’s just a manual process.
The other question is whether licenses can be transferred between people with the sale of a used device.
I honestly can’t think of another situation with a modern “app-store” like device being able to transfer licenses to apps/games/plugins with used devices.
If you buy a used Nintendo/Playstation/Xbox, the moment the original owner signs out of their account your access to those games is gone.
Same for a used phone with paid apps.
Even with a used PC with commercial audio plugins, even if they left you logged into their account so you could still use them on that PC, you wouldn’t be able to download them and install them on a second PC.
IMO that’s asking for an unprecedented level of leniency that would be damaging to the company. No other company/industry that I know of would meet that expectation.
So to me, the fact that you can still use the plugins on a used Dwarf should be viewed as a temporary bonus that goes away when you do a factory reset.
With the entire software industry embracing SaaS models, I’m happy to just not have to pay monthly LOL. Man, I really despise that trend.
Edit: And it should be said that the hundreds of FOSS plugins that are available transfer just fine
Currently, the licenses are device-based and we want to turn them into user-based as I wrote before. I didn’t get exactly what you wrote, the “fee” to be paid is to buy the plugins on the device that you own and doesn’t have it from another user.
Of course, we will not remove the licenses from the device you bought second-hand - that is a loophole in our current system and somehow we need to assume that consequence. That said, we can’t give you those licenses on another device because you didn’t buy them.
I don’t know where you read or are assuming this. Not even on our side, we have already realized how this will be done, so…
As I answered you there is, but we do this when you buy the plugins in one device and own another that you want to pass them. As I wrote in the first answer your case is different. You didn’t buy them in another device, you bought a device loaded with other licenses that another user bought. As I wrote first, that would not be fair, because you didn’t buy the licenses.
No, because you bought the device, not the plugins. The aim is to turn the licensing system into a user-based one, you got those licenses because they are still device based. What you are describing is kind of taking benefit from both licensing methods.
That’s exactly our goal. But this case is slightly different. If the licenses are user-based the user must have gotten the licenses somewhere.
Exactly, but your user library, not the device library.
What about license transfers? So when someone sells their device that includes paid plugins, that the new owner can also own those plugins.
It would be weird if someone sold their device and then remains the owner of the plugins. Usually there is a way to transfer such ownership and I think that should also be considered.
I do think that the cross-device usage of these plugins is a bit murky. Maybe there should be a “maximum number of devices” clause attached to that.
Do you mean that the old user of the device can also sell the plugins?
Yes. As I wrote before, we don’t have proper politics yet set for this. The current active one is still the device base licensing, but as we want to change that, we are providing the licenses when a user owns 2 or more devices and bought a plugin in one of them.
Yes, it’s very common that people sell and transfer plugin licenses.
So when you sell a MOD devices that includes plugins (currently), or you own MOD plugins as a user (possible new system), that you can transfer the ownership by selling the device or plugins.
