So, I’ve been using the Dwarf for a little over a month now, and I am still having cognitive failure using the knobs when selecting an item from a list. Every time I use a knob to select a preset, or switch pedalboards, I have to stop and try to remember which direction of the knob scrolls the list in the desired direction. For some reason, I always get it backward. Is it just me? My brain says that rotating the knob to the left should go to the next lowest item in the list and rotating right should select the next highest item in the list. Perhaps my cultural context is just reversed from the developers’?
I have the Dwarf on the floor, so no chance to use the knobs cause I hate bending down that far.
Point in case: we need control chain devices to be able to switch pedalboards!
This thread seems to have got 3 complete distinct directions pretty far looool
Anyway, on the topic of the thread: @malfunction54 I can (and will) map that on our requests, anyway, generally I feel that when you use a knob to scroll a list, turning it to the right goes down and to the left goes up. This doesn’t happen only in the MOD devices, but generally when something like this is available, I believe. Just like you write from the left to the right and from the top to the bottom in western cultures.
I code a bit, but I don’t consider my self a developer, even less in the MOD team and I have this perception. I believe that creating a setting to change something so simple like this would clutter the device with settings.
Does any other user feel the same as @malfunction54? Perhaps I’m the one with the perception upside down here
I should clarify that this isn’t a change request, I was just curious as to the perception of the “natural” direction. Since I didn’t see this mentioned anywhere in the forum, I was wondering if it was merely my own personal bias
I think it’s pretty standard for clockwise rotation to translate to scrolling right or down. Think about the old iPods with the scroll wheel. That’s how they worked
that’s a good point. I wonder if it has to to with the fact that the knobs are to the right of the screen, I’m thinking “to the left” is “lower” and “to the right” is “higher”. I just went to all the devices in my house that have an LCD and a knob:
- CPAP machine: clockwise=Up
- Dwarf: clockwise=Up
- Oven: there is no visible list, the value just changes
So, you’e correct that it’s more common. I’m not sure why it hit me different on the Dwarf than on other devices.
At any rate, discussing it will hopefully get it into my head that it isn’t weird
Which is a bit strange, because all parameter controls seem to go the other way around, where clockwise is higher value. So what should make sense while scrolling a list seems like a total mindf**k after an hour of getting the sound perfect by moving things clockwise/up, counter/down. This totally happens to me, but I don’t know if it’s worth an option to change it.
Clockwise is always a higher value. Moving to the right is increasing a value and so is moving down a list.
The values in a list can be seen like this:
List items are numbered from top to bottom. Turning the knob clockwise scrolls down the list increasing in value
@malfunction54 I think this is a very interesting question and maybe it points to a left brain/right brain issue or maybe even a left hand right hand issue. I am right handed and tend to view the knobs from that perspective. For instance, when you turn a knob clockwise, the right side of the knob goes down. When you turn it counter-clockwise, it goes up. I would be interested to know if you are right handed or left handed. Maybe it doesn’t have any impact.
I am right handed
There goes that theory
…i seem to like bumping old topics these days… lol!
i never used to use knobs for list selections, but have had a few occasions lately to do that, on both DuoX and Dwarf. i’ve also been experiencing serious cognitive dissonance with the knob direction, and have had to be deliberate about training my brain to know what’s going on!
the question of handedness may be an interesting one! i’m left handed, but what i’m doing in performance while turning knobs means that i don’t always have the same hand free for knob turning. the current paradigm messes LESS with my brain when i turn with my left hand, than with my right. perhaps turning towards the thumb (clockwise with the left hand) is a more positive, strong sort of movement and thus translates as “progressing through the list” (i.e. moving down the list) for me.
in the end, i imagine this is a very personal thing… maybe a setting could let us set our own direction, device-wide, but i’m sure there are better things for the MOD team to spend their time on! …we are, after all, trainable animals!!!..
interesting observation, @malfunction54 …i’d like to hear what some neurologists and physical behaviour researchers have to say about this sort of thing!
Honestly, I don’t see the problem with bumping old topics, if the new comments are related. In my mind, it keeps things organized better. I know other forums will flame users for doing this.
Bumping ancient post too.
Where a you from?
Basically I percieve exactly as it it is implemented:
clockwise, or “right” means “progress further”, and as soon as we start with a top one in the list (as presets in all VST plugins I’ve seen) , it means going down the list. Had no doubts that it should work that way until seen your post.
What actually gives me a mindf*ck is that on my MDX pedalboard virtual inputs are at left, and physically they are at right. Allways gives me a pain where to put assigned per-channel input and output gain knobs.
I do not think that it could be inplemented better -
I understand that MDX has to follow convention that physical guitar pedals have inputs at right, for physicak compatibility. And I am totally fine with virtual pedalboard stream going from left to right, it is convinient (on it’s own).
But I really do not get why guitar pedals in general are that way (from right to left) in the first place.
Can live with that though.
Simply…when you’re a guitarist, you don’t want your cable to go from right to left in front of your feet to go to your pedalboard…
Ah, @zwabo that really makes sense.
Regarding the rotation direction:
I think and feel the same way as it works on the Dwarf: rotate clockwise goes down in the list.
@James ’ explanation makes total sense to me.
I’m having a similar situation as described by @malfunction54 when I operate the infotainment system in my car: all cars I had before the current one had the “turn knob right, go down list” logic.
Now my current car (an Audi) hast this reversed, and still I am annoyed every single time I use it.
And I’ve owned that car for more than a year now…