DATA LOSS: Overwriting/creating a new snapshot on the device is forgotten

Description


If you overwrite an existing snapshot or save a new snapshot with a new name, your changes will get lost when you change to another pedalboard.

How to reproduce


  1. Have USB disconnected
  2. Modify the current snapshot e.g. by changing a delay length with a rotary knob on the Dwarf
  3. Press B-C together to go the snapshot page
  4. Press Save
  5. Either overwrite the current snapshot or save a new one with a new name
  6. Navigate to the pedalboard page and load a different pedalboard
  7. Reload the previous pedalboard
  8. Note that the overwritten snapshot has the original delay length, and/or the new snapshot is missing

Expected/suggested solution


The overwritten snapshot should retain your new delay length, and/or the new snapshot should be present and contain the right parameters. There should be no need to save the pedalboard to do this (nor is there any ‘save pedalboard’ command on the LCD UI anyway, which makes it impossible NOT to lose data).

Additional information


Open the controller menu (hold left knob down), navigate to Info > Versions and write down here the version.

  • hardware: MOD Dwarf
  • release: 1.13.4.3292

Also provide some information about your system if possible.

  • Operating system: Mac
  • System version: 13.5.1
  • Chrome: latest

A similar issue can be recreated with the web GUI however there is a warning before changing pedalboards that data will be lost. Still, as a longtime UI engineer I’d suggest that saving a snapshot should not require saving the pedalboard as well. Users will believe their data is safe when they see the snapshot overwritten or created, and may not understand the connection with the pedalboard concept.

5 Likes

I found even simpler repro steps without using a computer:

  1. Plug in the Dwarf
  2. Change a single parameter of a snapshot, e.g. a gain
  3. Overwrite the snapshot, see save confirmation on the LCD
  4. Unplug the power

When you power back up your changes will be lost. In other words, the Save Snapshot feature on the LCD UI fails with 100% reproducibility.

@falkTX, I’m still new here, are you the right person to ask about this?

huh. i’m seeing the same behavoiur here, @dswitkin !

…and, yes: when using the GUI, we do have to follow saving the snapshot with saving the pedalboard, or we lose the changes. so it seems the pedalboard save doesn’t happen (nor, as you point out, is there any warning) when we save directly on the device.

…and, i believe you are correct that there is no on-device method to save the entire pedalboard, so we’re officially borked! :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks for the fast repro, @plutek. Yes, I agree that saving a snapshot on the device should implicitly save the entire pedalboard if that’s what it takes not to lose your changes.

Secondarily, that brings up an issue of consistency between LCD and web. For them to operate the same, saving a snapshot in the web UI should also save the pedalboard. As a new user I have lost changes made in the web UI as well, and now I’m a little paranoid about it. Every time I save a snapshot I immediately save the pedalboard as well, which feels like two steps to complete one action.

I do think that if the user sees a message in either UI saying “snapshot saved” they should be able to trust that their changes are safe, regardless of whether they change pedalboards, disconnect USB, or unplug the power cord.

1 Like

I can confirm that you need to save the pedalboard after saving the snapshot on the Dwarf HMI. In this regard, it is the same situation as the Web UI. I was having the same experience. I do agree that saving the pedalboard as a separate step is confusing. It would be nice if the call to save the snapshot then called the function that saves the pedalboard automatically.

1 Like

@malfunction54 do you see the same failure observed by @dswitkin and me, when saving a snapshot on the device? i believe this problem has been reported a number of times already on this forum… not sure if you’ve reported your findings.

yep. totally agree. :wink:

I did not report it as a bug because I think that is how it is intended to function.

1 Like

yes, snapshots are volatile until the pedalboard is saved. that way you can freely experiment with snapshots on an existing pedalboard without breaking things.

the messaging could be improved for sure though. any suggestions?

3 Likes

please just add an “save all” button in the middle.

4 Likes

I would say then, try to avoid word “save” for snapshots. Maybe “create”, “set”, “assign”…

1 Like

Unfortunately there’s no ‘save pedalboard’ command on the LCD UI, so any snapshots you modify or create there will be lost. This is definitely not what I would expect as a user, so at a minimum we should consider adding a ‘save pedalboard’ function.

1 Like

you can save snapshots from the HMI (on the Dwarf, at least). If I recall correctly, I hit the menu button (far left), select save, then select snapshot. Once that’s saved, I then hit the menu button again, hit save, and then pedalboard. I’ll verify later when I have the dwarf on.

1 Like

Wow, you’re right, but I never would have looked there! The ‘save pedalboard’ function would make much more sense in navigation mode on the pedalboard screen, the same way that snapshots have the option to save on that screen. Feels like there should be some consistency between the pedalboard and snapshot screens that way.

3 Likes

Likewise, I’ve never used the “save pedalboard” function from the nav mode :laughing:

2 Likes

yeah, maybe “set”, with a note, “save pb to make permanent”. thinking about this more, i can see use cases for a temporary, in-performance “set” which we don’t want saved permanently. so it’s actually useful to have the option to not make it permanent.

it’s like the “instant snapshots” feature on the Duo X, which gives a way of recalling things one did earlier in a performance, while still leaving the base snapshot state in place for the next performance.

oh, interesting… thanks for that, @malfunction54 !

currently, in nav mode you can hit the left footswitch to display the pedalboard list, with the current PB highlighted (because it’s active). the left button takes you to the banks list, but the other two buttons are unused. how about making one of them “save” for the current pedalboard? that way, we have a pb save available also in nav mode.

4 Likes

Agreed, that’s what I was trying to suggest above about adding a Save button.

2 Likes

Ugh. I just lost an hour of work because of this issue. I spent so much time dialing in the combination of amp and cabinet settings, spelling out and saving two new snapshots on the Dwarf, and then of course forgetting to save the pedalboard before I navigated away.

Please, as a 25 year UI software veteran, I’m asking you to reconsider the idea that saving a snapshot does not save the pedalboard it’s in. Users will believe their data is safe when they press a Save command on a snapshot, and it’s inevitable that they will lose that data with the current firmware. Adding a warning isn’t enough either because if they pull the power cable there’s no chance to see the warning. I really believe the best solution is for Save Snapshot to implicitly save the pedalboard as well.

1 Like

we did just that a few days ago in Always save snapshots, regen screenshot as needed, save indicator · moddevices/mod-ui@a4418dc · GitHub (together with a few other things while at it)

I am not the biggest fan of the either approach, we are basically separating pedalboard state from snapshots state but we feel the pain this has caused and decided to change things.

We do not want to push it as a bug-fix, so the feature change will be part of the 1.14 update when it is finally ready.

8 Likes