so this was my first Day with dwarf. I like Dwarf. It will be much fun in the future.
Today I played with Looperlative LP3 and it was a bit difficult for me to use such a limited Looper after working with loopy pro for some time now. Still I got the everything in a box idea and the LP3 is promising. My first realworld usage would have been to record a loop and send Tempo via Midi loopback to dwarf, setting hosttempo to dwarfs tempo… Nice, this works, but I’d like to control Abletons Tempo via link at the same time. That would really make sense, as I wouldn’t have to use the looper module inside ableton anymore for that purpose.
Technically I find no reason why Midisync (to loopback midi) and Link to controll Abletons tempo at the same time… Ah, ok, it should be possible to turn off Dwarf Host tempocontrol via Ableton… got it… Would that be possible?
Oh, and is there really no module to Tap internal Tempo? Or Internal tempo set by internal midi sync… I think that really would make sense and would be th most elegant solution.
Is midi over USB possible? Can’t find dwarf as mididevice in ableton…
MOD originally wanted a simpler looper to help people doing simple song structures. I’m currently working on a more advanced looper for experienced users.
That’ll be great! Maybe you could have some influence on getting your devices detected Tempo to the hosttempo of dwarf. Midiloopback is too restricting when you loose Abletoin Link Possibility. I now got the dwarf to put out USB midi, thats a first step, but It didn’t network with windows then … so far… still testing… Ah, now it works, but I found that Ableton in contrast to loopy pro just allows to enable Link OR Midi sync :-(. It has never been easy
@looperlative ah, and while we’re talking: I tried connecting 3 LP3s to one input. I would only need the monitoring enabled on ONE instance, because otherwise I’d need to switch input because the monitoring adds up in contrast to the recording :-(. Would be nice to be able to turn off monitoring in LP3! 1000 Thanks for your great device!
Let me have a chat with them. I’m not certain what would be involved in providing clock back to the Dwarf. Note that the LP3 looper can sync to either the Dwarf clock or the actual MIDI clock.
I need the dwarf LP3 for first loop tempodetection which is missing in most of the big softwares like Bitwig & co. … Ableton link is such an elegant way to get tempo out of dwarf, but for that the tempo has to be set by LP3 to make it useful.,… midiclock is working, that’s really cool allready!!!
so you would mean to have a plugin (looperlative on this case) receiving ableton link data directly?
the MOD host already can handle link, and will feed that to the plugins.
having plugins handle that directly is possible too sure.
on technical side of things, MOD uses GitHub - falkTX/Hylia: Host transport library for Ableton Link which simplifies the integration of link in C codebases. though a few months ago ableton made official C wrappers too
@falkTX No, I want to use LP3 to control Dwarfs main tempo, which should be send TO Ableton via LINK.
Dwarfs Tempomanipulation (also via midi sync) is blocked as soon as I enable link. So I can’t make Dwarfs Tempo listen to LP3s first-loop-tempo-detection… It Listens to it via midi Loopback, but for that I have to turn on sync to midi, so that Link will be disabled. Dwarf should be Master to Ableton, but slave to LP3.
And b.t.w., this is fantastic, that LINK is integrated. Dwarf shows in all fields that it is really very well thought out and is very close to the concept ‘Eierlegende Wollmilchsau’ in the most positive way and will allways find its usecases.
@falkTX Is this possible? If so, does the plugin need to do something different than what it currently does?
there is no exact master and slave concept in Link the same that it is done with MIDI and a few other formats. every client is able to control the tempo.
for the client that sets the exact beat position I am not sure how that works…
but I am quite positive in order to have what is being asked here you will need your own implementation of Link within the looperlative plugin.
@looperlative @falkTX That sounds reasonable and would be very cool, to have LP3 with LINK, as Midi sync seems to jump around (just near a center value) and it maybe would be problematic just to send tempo once to Dwarf/Ableton. Synchronisation is needed and for that LINK would be perfect… right?
Thank you!!! I am very happy to see, that Looper developement and surrounding technical issues are in very active developement!
I’m not certain that sounds “reasonable”. While MIDI isn’t perfect, it is a standard. On top of that, all of the Looperlative products support MIDI synchronization out and in. I haven’t ever looked at Ableton. I will need to go look at LINK and see if it is something that makes sense in this environment.
@looperlative Yes, Midi is working and is great and is standard. But there is happening a lot. On IPad most of the ‘important’ music apps have link. Bitwig, Pro Tools, Maschine, Serato (I think Traktor also) have Link… many, many more. It is a new standard and it works beautifully together with Midi in many cases. I bet it will be worth it to add LINK to your software loopers…
Considering that it looks it is possible to map the Dwarf internal BPM to CV (although I was not able to make it work), another possibility for what is being asked, would be a plug-in that converts MIDI clock to CV, right? For example add the possibility to the existing plug-in CV clock to get the BPM from MIDI and set the internal BPM from its CV output….
Really very interesting to get the BPM from looperlative and use for other plugins like tremolo, delay,… With MIDI loop back and sync to MIDI it is working great, but the problem is that the mapping of the BPM is lost once sync to MIDI is selected and not possible to go back to internal and set the BPM from the device itself.
I’m not sure that a clock to CV conversion would be accurate enough to stay in sync. With MIDI clock, I can guarantee that you will be give a clock pulse at the start of every loop. Converting time to a voltage level will result in some error. Now, if the number of times through the loop is small enough, then the drift may be too small to hear.
BTW, I’ve taken just a quick look at Ableton Link enough to know that it is a nontrivial effort to integrate it with a looper. So, it is now on my long-term projects list. Unfortunately, I can’t estimate at this time when it can be integrated.