The future of Mod Duo X (Dec 2022)

There are retailers selling MOD DUO X’s right now for full price of ~$899, with no mention of any of these problems. I think potential buyers should be notified by the sellers of these boxes, that they may end up orphaned. I just bought a MOD DUO X a week ago, but fortunately I bought it used from someone at a very good price. If I had paid full retail and found about these potential abandonment issues of the hardware by MOD, I absolutely would have returned it. As it is currently, I am even now “still on the fence” about selling it off again. Time will tell I guess. One has to watch closely how things are handled regarding this by MOD and in what manner.

EDIT: Looks like Perfect Circuit in the US has just dropped their price of a new MOD DUO X to $719 from $899.

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I will continue to build Looperlative loopers for both the Dwarf and the MDX. This is not a limitation on the MDX. In fact, the MDX should have available the exact same revision as the Dwarf today. I release both platforms at the same time.

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I used my MDX at the Santa Cruz Live Looping Festival this past October. It worked perfectly. It was the only effect box that I took. It did my reverb, chorus, delays and looping. Honestly it is an amazing device.

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So you don’t think that someone buying an MDX new from a retailer should be told before their purchase that future support of the unit is questionable? That’s very odd. Why? You don’t happen to sell used cars do you? :wink:

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I honestly don’t think that they are completely orphaned. Maybe it is the optimist in me, but it is an excellent device and it can still support newly created plugins.

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That’s not answering my question

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MOD devices been computers in the first place. Now, when you go to a store and buy a new computer, let’s say with windows 11, you’ll receive security updates from time to time, as long windows 11 is supported. The same is true here. It was clearly stated that it is NOT planed to skip support for MOD DUO X.
What was stated is that no new MOD DUO X will be produced in the near future.
Development will focus on the MOD DWARF. That doesn’t mean that you could throw away you MOD DUO X now. As long the modaudio company exists (*) you’ll receive updates for you device, when necessary. Clearly, it may happen that the one or the other feature gets developed didn’t make it to your device because hardware incompatibility, but, keep in mind, in that case it wouldn’t make it to it anyway.

(*) That is just what I understand from the statements I read here in the forum.

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Yes, I also read all those statements. None of them appeared to me as being definitive nor very reassuring. There is also the fact that the entire company itself was just recently dissolved.

Btw- the MDX is not an “off the shelf” computer so your analogy to such doesn’t really apply. There are custom bits involved that if entropy sets in due to changes in other tech, it could very much turn these things into bricks.

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What is the exact answer you are trying to search for here?

The Duo X is still supported with bugfixes and new plugin releases, which are 2 very critical points.
With the just released 1.12 it was updated just a few days ago to support the same things the Dwarf did on 1.11.
There is a 1.12.1 bugfix coming very soon (maybe later today or tomorrow), and as expected it will be released for the Duo X too.

The next 1.13 release brings a new toolchain for the entire build, needed in order to support new plugin releases (anything that requires proper C++17 or later, like new JUCE based plugins).
The Duo X has already been validated to work with this, and will benefit from being updated in this manner once the new plugins come along. On the short-term this is AIDA DSP as discussed here on the forums.

If there are breaking changes from any of our software, any fixes not related to new features can be easily back-ported so Duo and Duo X still move along side it.
Case in point: just yesterday I noticed while doing other things that Ctrl+X on a plugin or pedalboard search area would not trigger a new search, and fixed that. This same fix will be backported to Duo X, even though it is part of new v1.13 things.

The Duo has been on a very similar situation for much longer, and still gets updates to this day.
Not in the same manner as the other units, but it still benefits from bugfixes and plugins releases.

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Thank you for your inputs, @falkTX.

Further to the initial belief from most here that MOD would keep providing support to Duo X users, your statement provides reassurance as to that intention. I have myself expressed such belief above – precisely based on what you’ve been doing with the Duo:

Now, for this question

If you’re referring to what @tllk had asked, then you have provided a comprehensive answer (assuming the “you” in your question refers to his previous posts.) We appreciate that. And by the way, we have also acknowledged that the recent 1.12 update brought improvements and (not only bugfixes) to the Duo X, for which we are thankful – and for which I personally thanked MOD in one of my posts in the the 1.12 release thread, other than mentioning that in this thread.

Now, if the “you” in question is all of us here, then the answer we are looking for is: what can be done to keep the X strong and well featured? This question is present in the initial post and in others below.

We are trying to devise ways in which implementation of some features of the Dwarf could also be present in the Duo X. This derives from my interaction with you in that same thread, whereby I was informed that Snapshot management would not come to the Dwarf due to a business decision. (Which, by the way, we repeatedly acknowledged and most of us are understanding of.)

What we’ve been asking here is to brainstorm a way so that these improvements could also be brought to the X, including the now twice-mentioned sponsorship by the parties interested. I mention that in the initial thread and lately @unbracketed waved that same flag:

For a complete answer to that question, MOD’s input is obviously of the essence.

For instance, if we were given a figure for the cost of porting those improvements over to the X, company and users could devise a coupon or other investment of the sorts so that we could dish the money needed to pay either you or a freelance/assistant you would hire to do that work. That’s similar to what you’re doing with the Dwarf, except that the cost in this case is only labour and therefore the risk is minimal, with cash-in going much higher than cash-out. Then the burden for MOD is minimal, the cost borne by the community, and everyone is happy – even those who did not pay for it.

For something like this to happen, we would need to hear from MOD if that is a possibility.

If instead turning the page on the X for whatever reason is what MOD is looking forward to, then all you need to do is tell us.

Hope this clarifies things.

What I believe he said is that it still supports newer plugins and then Falk said support will continue in very clear and specific terms, other than previous statements to that same effect. So there’s no reason Perfect Circuit should warn users that they’re buying some soon-to-be-dead unit, unless MOD specifically says that they will let the Duo X die out. And since they haven’t dropped the ball on older Duos, we always believed they would come through for the X.

That is a real danger to the extent that MOD uses a web browser in some external device. So if MOD Audio fails completely and at some point browsers no longer recognize the devices, we’d be locked out when it comes to building pedalboards.

However, as a standalone unit, it would still work.

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On my personal opinion, and being very honest, don’t think there is much we can do overall at this point.
The software stack as used for MOD units and MOD Duo X in specific is niche beyond niche. We are dealing with low-level kernel things, realtime audio with LV2 plugins, a custom built OS based on buildroot and a few other tools all integrated into one.
There are very few people out there that know how to deal with an entire system like this as a whole, so any extra people coming in would need overseeing and mentoring, which is not very realistic right now time-wise.

Again ** in my opinion ** an area that could see some focus and get everyone to benefit are plugins, then documentation as well, perhaps marketing/promotion too.
I dont think of only making new stuff, but also contributing to existing projects.
Take the ZamAudio plugin collection for example, with some attention they could be made to work well on the platform.
LSP collection has been growing recently, even despite author’s life being made difficult and having to run from his own country.
There is also Sfizz, which will be the gateway to get sfz instruments working on MOD, consider getting involved with the project.
These are just a few examples, making new commercial plugins is also an option, as MOD grows we hope more revenue comes from plugin sales and not just units sold.
For the other areas of documentation and promotion, other people will for sure know better than me what is needed there.

Anyhow, work on those can happen along-side MOD Audio’s activities. Making the Duo X (or Duo or Dwarf) an awesome device does not have to involve working directly with it, getting the attention of plugin developers to port their stuff to the platform can also help the platform grow.

I dont think that is a real worry. When the plugin store went down, I was ready with ideas on how to put up a replacement, but was not needed in the end.
And for browsers to completely stop accepting regular HTTP, a whole lot of other stuff and devices would have to break as well, everything becoming e-waste. Dont think anyone wants that.

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Thanks for your feedback, @falkTX. In a way, that settles the matter for the time. I guess we can understand the constraints.

Whereas all the collections you mentioned are welcome additions, a while back I tried to make the point that, both from a feature and revenue standpoint, MOD could invest in partnerships for paid options. In my own opinion, the price point for Mod plugins is very, very inviting. Looperlative and Shiroverb are almost a gift. So more of those work both ways, increasing functionality and revenue.

(If I recall correctly, you mentioned Sfizz being in the works a while back, or am I mistaken? Sfizz would be a great addition.)

Again, thanks for weighing in. It’s reassuring to know that the X will be functional for the foreseeable future and that it will keep running newer plugins.

Understood. Good to know a plan B is feasible.

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That is correctly. It mostly works already, there are just a few technical issues preventing it from being usable without xruns on the dwarf.
The big blocker was note stealing not working correctly, and that has been fixed now from what I could test.
Next steps are making a custom modgui, and some final testing, polish and all in between

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What you are doing is insane (in the positive sense) and I (we) thank you.
Developing Linux, Linux^Audio and your own hardware is certainly not easy, but you are doing it well and I am very happy.
My fullest respeckt to you!
The DuoX is super flexible in very many areas and from the CPU/RAM/hard disk space/… very pleasant! You can do so many nice musical things with it.

I (we) only want an official statement how it (probably, because of the multiple, worldwide problems) goes on with the DuoX.
This happens and is another pleasant factor from you guys.
That everything is quite difficult in the times and a certain uncertainty can prevail in the near future I am aware.
Direct, transparent communication is something very pleasant.

I wish you only the best and nothing else. !hug

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exactly what I would have guessed. And I mean exactly.

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I did not chime in in this conversation, but it was insightful to read a bit later. Please find a related statement here:

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So…? That’s it? I know this is a very old conversation but I didn’t want to open a new topic. Really no more features and improvements for DUO X? Not even production? And no more footswich units production? (which btw are difficult, not impossible, to be replaced especially in terms of design)…All the focus and resources just for Dwarf? Too bad, DUO X is a brilliant piece of musical equipment which deserves more attention. Because it has a lot more to offer.

It’s just a thought. You MOD team are great anyway :slightly_smiling_face:

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I don’t think you read the topic (or any others on the forum).

Plugins add features and they will still come to the DuoX.
Basic firmware updates to mod-ui and such are likely also to still come.

Production isn’t possible because a lot of components are either no longer available or gone up in price immensely.

While I also really like the DuoX there have been flaws in its design and if ever a DuoX-II comes (DuoXX?) it would need a lot of work to be corrected and updated. At this point this is not realistic at all.

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I didn’t all of them and I must have misunderstood the DuoX status. It means that this is the only bad news on this :blush:

Thanx for your reply, I will stay tuned.

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Man I still dream of a hardware company making a DuoX II with the MOD UI… but I’m sure some intrepid souls will be making little mini-PCs with MOD desktop… hopefully those plans will just get more accessible and attainable for the less technically-minded among us…

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