Send one CC# when learning

Hello guys,

I am starting to have a fairly complex midi network on my pedal board, and I find it difficult to have a knob to learn about one CC#.

When the knob is listening for a CC, I think it gives up because it is receiving more than one CC# at the same time.

I suppose I would be okay if I was sending this CC from an external midi device, but I would like to use the Dwarf only while programming it is possible…

Any idea about that ?


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Let me see if I got it well…
You are trying to get a MIDI CC knob assigned, but that knob sends multiple CC messages at once. Is that it?

If you are actually generating these multiple messages internally, I recommend you to not do it since you will not be able to make assignments (what you are describing is actually a common problem with stuff like MIDI XY controllers, joysticks, or any sort of interface that can send multiple messages simultaneously).

Maybe if you tell us what is your final goal, we can help you finding a workaround.

Hey Jon,

What want to do is when I select an effect that is controllable by the expression pedal, I want a mindi to send the current CC# value for that knob out so my external midi device GUI is refreshed.

I realise that I need to do that early on in the pedal board construction, when there are not that many midi circuits.

Alternatively, I might be able to filter all midi messages except for the one I want the knob to learn.

Another approach yet, which would require a code change: could we just input the CC# by hand instead of letting the knob discover it?


BTW I am trying to share a private board but it’s failing:

The expression pedal is sending on CC#126 but then I can map it to whatever CC# I want to to control. I do that with a CC map which “TO PARAM” value gets changed according to the effect I want to control. And that “TO PARAM” value I managed to be learnt as I did that fairly early. So now it’s 111, that is the CC# for the distortion. If I was chosing another effect, it would change to another value, happy days.

The value for that CC# is sent out by this Mindi here but the CC# is hard coded (111) and I can’t make it “learnable” :frowning: it should be the same as the CC value for the CC Map. Does this make sense ?

So The MIDI control that you use is only one, but you want to assign it to multiple things, right? To the effect and to mindi. Is it that?

This is not yet possible, unfortunately.

Can you see a screenshot of your pedalboard when you look at it on the pedalboards or banks lists?
I think this may be the source of the issue.

Back to your issue…
Can’t CV and its multi-assignable possibilities help you here?
If you try to assign the pedal to CV and then assign the output of the CV both to the desired effect and a CV to MIDI converter that you connect in the MIDI output, wouldn’t this serve your needs?

note that you can ssh into MOD devices and edit the pedalboard ttl file, to make MIDI parameter assignments directly. :wink:


Ok, I think it’s time for me to get in there :slight_smile:
Where can I learn more about that?

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The idea is that some of the effects on the pedal board can be “modulated” via the expression pedal.
Reverb, Distortion, whammy, etc…
And so what I want is to be able to change the CC# of the expression pedal to point to any of these, dynamically. Does that make sense ?
Let’s say the whammy steps are on CC#1 and the reberb wet amount is on CC#2, and the expression pedal sends on CC#3, I want to be able to map the CC#3 to either CC#1 or CC#2, via a switch press…
but you know don’t sweat it, what I have at the moment is fine. Each “assignable” effect has its own mindi that will sent its CC# hardcoded, that’s not the end of the world. Forget about this, it’s not important.

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If I’ve understood, I would do it like this :


No worries @RDNZL it’s nice to take this challenge and to find a solution in the community. We all (including me, obviously!) get a chance to learn something that will certainly be useful.

I believe that what you are doing is not so complicated, you may just be taking the wrong approach to the scope of what is currently possible in the MOD platform.
I believe that @Rom suggestion takes you to the right path.
So, you are trying to modify the CC number of the pedal so you can assign it to multiple effect parameters, but (on the scope of the MOD platform atm) it’s easy to assign the CC from the expression pedal only to a Control to CV and then take it from there, assigning the CV outcome to everything that you need. On top, you can indeed add a CV switch box if you want to only control one at them time - for example, if you want to keep the reverb active even when you don’t want anymore to mess with any parameter while using the expression pedal, but you do want to use it to mess with the whammy.

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That sounds like a good piece of advice Jon, thanks !
Out of curiosity, what is more CPU intensive when doing “transformations” ? Midi or CV ? Are they both negligible when compared to what audio effects require ?
I tend to have a lot of CV / Midi companion plugins for each plugin. I have even given up on adding the couple control to CV + Mindi to output the knobs values to external midi device when they are changed in the web ui… I am hoping one day it will be a default behaviour … any chance of that happening soon btw ?


Yes. Audio takes way more. Both are simple logic operators, so exactly the things that first computers have been built for…we are way beyond that. I would say that unless you really have a gazillion of MIDI or CV plugins, you should not worry about their CPU consumption. And I believe both are pretty similar. CV has more resolution, so out of not a huge knowledge, I would say that it may consume a tiny bit more, but we are talking about values that won’t make much difference.

Soon, I believe that no. This is quite hard because the way that each MIDI controller receives MIDI tends to be different. When they receive MIDI at all and don’t only send it.

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I’ve only used 3 midi controllers from 3 different constructors (Blackstar, Keith McMillen Sofstep and Morningstar Engineering), and they all (for the Softstep I didn’t use much long, not sure…) behave the same way to showing something happening in the dwarf : I have to send a message from the dwarf to the controller.
For example

  • if a CC#32 engages/disengages the delay
  • if I send a CC#32 with value 0 or 127 from the Dwarf to the controller
  • then the controller changes the state of the button that sends CC#32 and change the LED state.

I suppose that the cheap controllers don’t do that, but from what I’ve seen, even if it is not a standard, it seams the way constructors have handled bi-directional midi.
That was the purpose of this tread and this one too where @AndyCap propose a solution in the Dwarf’s code.


Thanks for this !

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Ok so I think I am going to put efforts back in to publish the CC values out.
I have an old Livid Code 2 (check it out, it’s pretty awesome) which I use for programming (I can tweak 90 different CC# via knobs & switches with visual feedback, so basically I can expose more or less every knobs from every plugin on the pedalboard that way…). The leds around knobs listening to a LFO are very cool to watch :wink: :wink: :wink:

I also have the Chocolate & a expression pedal, but that’s more for performing.